Canada may have no car brands of it's own, but.

"not for canada - australian in disguise" (for-canada) 03/16/2019 at 00:27 • Filed to: BUSLOPNIK

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What we do have, surprisingly enough, is a fuckload of bus brands. So many in fact, that most buses in the US and Canada are built in Canada. There are only about four major bus brands that sell buses in the US and Canada that aren’t Canadian, Alexander Dennis (based in Scotland, makes pretty much all the transit double deckers in North America), Gillig (based in California), BYD (electric buses only, based in China) and ElDorado National (also based in California).

The rest are Canadian, this includes;

New Flyer (based in Winnipeg), probably the biggest bus maker in North America. Most buses you see on the road are probably New Flyers.

Nova Bus (based in Quebec), formed from the remnants of GM’s once almost monopolistic bus division. When they started, they took over production of GM’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! from MCI (we’ll get to them) and the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! lineup from TMC (NOT to be confused with GMC, the original makers of the RTS line of buses).

Grande West (based in British Columbia), the newest addition to the Canadian bus industry. Essentially created out of BC Transit (British Columbia’s provincial transit agency)‘s desire to replace their aging !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! fleet. Thus, the Grande West Vicinity was created from a Chinese design. Many other Canadian (and a couple of American) agencies have bought the buses since, mostly to replace less practical van and truck-based cutaway buses.

Motor Coach Industries (MCI) (also based in Winnipeg), owned by New Flyer since 2015 and also the largest coach bus builder in North America.

Prevost Car (also based in Quebec), isn’t techinically Canadian, as they are owned by Volvo these days. But, they are still based in Quebec and make most of their buses in Quebec. Due to being owned by Volvo, Prevost also sell European Volvo coach models in the US and Canada, though the Prevost coaches are far more popular. Daimler does a similar thing by selling Setra coaches at Freightliner dealers. Prevost coaches are so popular, even the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

There also was Orion (headquartered in Ontario), formerly owned by Daimler until they shut down their North American bus division (excluding Setra coaches) in 2013. Orion was originally founded by the Ontario government to build buses specially fit for Ontarian cities and conditions. Then, in 1995 they were sold to the then Australian-owned Canadian truck company Western Star, and then Western Star was bought by Daimler in the early 2000s, including Orion. Orions never really made their way out of Ontario all that much, excluding New York which has quite a few VIIs still in service.

One interesting thing is that Orion in the 80s sold articulated Hungarian Ikarus buses in Canada. They were hideously unreliable, like Eastern Bloc vehicles tended to be, and they were all replaced by contemporary North American artics within a few years. I believe only Ottawa and Toronto actually bought the buses. 

Svend > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:02

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I was going to say what was wrong with Plaxton, but as Alexander Dennis bought them out in 2007-8 it sort of seems mute, and they now produce Enviro 200 and 400 for Alexander Dennis. 

not for canada - australian in disguise > Svend 03/16/2019 at 01:13

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Yep. This is what most of BC Transit’s Pointers look like. They’re all nearing about 20 years of age now, which is quite old for a bus considering the wear and tear they get.

It’s interesting you mention the Enviro200, because during the development phase of the Vicinity BC Transit did trial the New Flyer MiDi, which was a rebadged Enviro200. A few years afterwards the MiDi was discontinued and Dennis just started selling the Enviro200 here themselves to complement the Enviro 500 tri-axle double deckers.

Pretty much the only Canadian city to use the MiDi is Yellowknife, all the way in the cold Arctic region. Most of their fleet used to be transit-style school buses (pictured below) but they updated their fleet and now they mostly use the MiDi.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:18

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It’s cool seeing old Orions still kicking around, they look so much better then the Novas. You also forgot that Nova HQ is in Quebec, & built in Quebec, but owned by Volvo. I saw one Orion today. While on "busses" I count street cars as busses. 

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:23

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The more you know.........not only is Gillig US, but also Californian.

facw > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:31

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Note that there are a bunch of US-based bus manufacturers that specialize in school buses, Blue Bird and Thomas Built being the most prominent. There are some offerings that aim a bit beyond schools and prisons:

not for canada - australian in disguise > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 03/16/2019 at 01:31

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I forgot that about Novabus, you’re right. They actually aren’t headquartered too far from Prevost’s HQ, who are also owned by Volvo as mentioned above.

Orions are pretty rare in Canada outside of Ontario, last time I saw one was almost a year ago, as my city only has two VIIs (both hybrids, interestingly the hybrid system was done by BAE, the plane people who also owned Rover for a bit, but not actually, really they’re the successor company of British Aerospace who did own Rover. But that’s for another time.)

not for canada - australian in disguise > facw 03/16/2019 at 01:33

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Yep! Unlike the transit and coach bus industries, the Americans kinda dominate the school bus industry. Canada does/did have a few, like Corbeil (who are defunct) and Lion (who make electric bus and truck thingies) (both are/were also Quebecois).

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:38

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It was exciting see an Orion. It's what comes to mind when I think TTC. 

facw > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:53

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The transit buses here are mostly New Flyers, though the oldest buses are from Neoplan, a Colorado bus maker that went bankrupt in 2006.

When I take the bus to NYC they are mostly Van Hools (which seem to be from Belgium).

not for canada - australian in disguise > facw 03/16/2019 at 01:57

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I forgot about Van Hool. For a Belgian company that makes pretty European-esque buses, they seem to do quite well. York (a suburb of Toronto) seems to be the only city in Canada to use them.

FSI > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 01:58

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The US spec Setra really looked fugly with the Americanized bits like the split windshield and large bumper.

not for canada - australian in disguise > FSI 03/16/2019 at 02:03

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Thankfully most Setras in North America don’t seem to actually look like that, instead most of them are much more like their European counterparts.

NA bumpers have always confounded me. They’re not mandatory as plenty of buses don’t have them, and they always make a bus look weird and ugly. The Alexander Dennis Enviro500 is a prime example of this, compare without;

vs with;

Svend > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 02:06

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Y e’, looking up the history of Henleys Group, Dennis, Walter Alexander, Plaxton, Volvo , Nova Bus, Prevost,

Henley’ s motor division was sold to Plaxton Group 1992.

Hen ley’ s pursued expansion into the bus division and bought Northern Counties buses in 1995.

Henley’s got a 49% share in Prevost, the other 51% held by Volvo.

Most of Henley’s cash went into buying Nova Bus 1997, 1998 Prevost bought Nova Bus.

1998 Henley’s bid for Dennis, which went into a bidding war with Mayflower, owner of Walter Alexander. Volvo supported Henley’s bid but lost to Mayflower.

Henley’s buy Bluebird.

2000 a joint venture was made between Mayflower, now owners of Dennis and Alexander brands, known as T ransBus International, including Plaxton and Northern Counties . Henley’s having a 30% stake in the venture.

TransBus International went into administration in 2004.

TransBus Plaxton (Henley’s) was sold to it’s managers. Leading to Nova Bus in N ew Mexico closing down.

2004 Bluebird restructured with Volvo and took over Henley’s share.

Volvo also took over Prevost and No va Bus operations.

2004 Henley’s ceased trading.

2007 Plaxton was bought by Dennis Alexander.

It’s seems it’s all the same people competing with each other then going into ventures and then buying and selling each other until the victor wins. 

Nick- Professional Car Destroyer > not for canada - australian in disguise 03/16/2019 at 07:00

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I used to work for a company contracted with Nova and got to work on the assembly line occasionally.
It is pretty cool to see them built and see how they move them through the plant.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > not for canada - australian in disguise 04/01/2019 at 17:47

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Not true, Orions were used quite a bit in the middle of the US. I know my dad drove a lot of them in SLC... At one point I’d say they were 50-50 with Gilligs in the fleet there.

bhtooefr > not for canada - australian in disguise 04/13/2019 at 21:49

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Alexander Dennis (based in Scotland, makes pretty much all the transit double deckers in North America) 

There’s also Van Hool (based in Belgium) , who makes both (a lot of) single and (some) double-decker coaches for the US market, and is getting into transit buses (and making them in the US).

Also, where does Proterra fit? T hey’re US-based (California, with manufacturing in California and South Carolina), although I guess they don’t count as “major” yet (even though they’re one of the three major EV bus players in the North American market - New Flyer and BYD being the other two ).

not for canada - australian in disguise > bhtooefr 04/13/2019 at 21:59

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Proterra, while growing, I wouldn’t exactly call major. No major cities use a significant portion of Proterras in their fleet, at least not yet. Van Hool I mostly just forgot about, although they still aren’t as big in North America as most other bus builders, so I wouldn’t go as far as calling them “major” just yet.